Sleep in class, get a zero. Unless you play football.
Larry “Doc” Neace, a Dacula High School physics teacher, has been banned from Gwinnet County Public School District campuses. His decade old policy of reducing grades for students who disrupt class or waste class time was applied to the wrong student - a star football player.
[Sloan Roach, spokeswoman for the district] said the dispute began after Neace handed out an assignment that was due the next day. One student fell asleep during class the day the assignment was made, but turned in the work on time, she said. The student earned a perfect score, but Neace reduced the mark by half because the student fell asleep in class, she said.
“This action is a direct contradiction to the school system’s policy on grading,” Roach said.
Neace said he developed his own policy about 10 years ago that students who waste time in class  by sleeping, playing games or engaging in other mindless activities  receive a penalty grade. The penalty can be a zero or half credit depending on the assignment, he said.
Several students have received zeroes and half credits this school year, Neace said.
“I’ve never been reprimanded or punished or told to change the grade before,” Neace said.
Roach said she did not know why Neace’s actions were challenged this time. She said additional facts will be presented during Thursday’s hearing.
The boy’s father complained and school administration ordered Neace to raise the student’s grade. When he repeatedly refused to follow these instructions he was barred from all school property.
This isn’t cut and dried. Although Neace’s lawyer claims this is all about protecting a coddled football player it is certainly possible but it’s just a case of the squeaky wheel getting the grease. Gwinnett policy is to not discipline students with grade adjustments but Neace has been using this system for a decade with no interference from the administration. So what is the truth? My guess is that it lies somewhere in the middle.
Occam’s Razor says: Neace’s policy was never called into question before because whatever administrators knew of it did not know about the district policy it broke. This was simply the first time a student (parent) complained to the school board and had taken the time to look up the applicable rules.
(Tip credit to David Leonard)
So, his boss says that his system is against policy and to change it but he refuses and gets fired for it?
If that happened at my job, I don’t think I’d get a lot of sympathy.
I think the football player thing is a red herring. The teacher wasn’t following district policy and was refusing to comply.
I’m sure the truth is more complicated than the story lets on, this kind of thing usually is.
I have never heard of a school where participation in class was not graded.
Participation is usually graded with one grade on the report card, that reflects the student’s overall participation during the semester, not on each individual assignment. I can see how maybe taking off a point on the student’s overall average for sleeping in class might be fair (if a bit heavy-handed), but taking off an outrageous amount of credit on an assignment when you were sleeping in class unduly affects the student’s overall grade, and is punitive. That the student was sleeping while the assignment was being distributed in no way affect’s the student’s performance on that particular assignment.
I doubt this has anything to do with the football player, aside from that the parent made a ruckus about it. If I were still in high school, I’d think this teacher’s policy was really unfair and would want to do something about it.
–adam
If a student sleeps through class, but doesn’t interfere with other students’ learning, that’s his own problem. If he manages to learn the material and properly complete assignments, then the teacher has nothing to say about it.
In high school and in college I took courses in the summer to get ahead. They were typically 4 hours a day in one class, and I did a LOT of sleeping. I also had the highest scores in the class, and never snored.
You know what this teacher oughtta be rewarded for his stand. I slept through several college classes for my Major’s but they weren’t exciting. The Prof’s had no such policies but the wealth of info they passed out verbally I could not simply get second hand and as a result I screwed myself in the end. This kid may have done otherwise but he brought this on himself. You take a class you attend it and pay attention or pay the price. I wish there were more teachers like this perhaps kids would buck up and learn something about cause and effect.
I graduated from Dacula High School in 1993 and although I did not have class with Doc Neace, many of my friends did. All held Doc Neace with nothing but the highest regard. He was extremely well respected amongst the highest acheivers at the school, and when I attended he was the ONLY male teacher not referred to as “Coach So-and-So.” Don’t let them fool you - that school cares more about football than anything. They had their very best athlete in “special” classes just so he would pass & be able to play. Doc Neace is the best thing they’ve got going amongst a group of teachers who hardly know which form of “there” “their” or “they’re” to use in a sentence -yes I am talking about you, Coach Dunagan; and are incapable of labeling the first 13 colonies on a map - my Civics teacher Coach Mac asked me which was which, because I was “from up there” and he didn’t know. They are absolutely blatant in their favoritism towards atheletes, and football players in particular. I cannot say enough what an absolute travesty and injustice Doc Neace’s firing is… I want to know what I can do to show my support!!
Teacher Fired For Violating District Grading Policy And Insubordination
Now I chose that title very deliberately. That isn�t the way the story is being presented in the media, or being argued by the teacher and his lawyers. But when one cuts through all the rhetoric, histrionics, and outcry, that…
If a kid sleeps through class and yet turns in a perfect assignment, I’d think either the kid is very, very smart, or he didn’t do the assignment himself. The latter is considerably more likely - and I don’t remember any academic superstars at all on my highschool football team. While it is possible for a football player to be very, very smart, it’s close to impossible for him to find time to study enough to make up for blowing off a class…
Unlikely, yes. Impossible, no.
The valedictorian of my class was also the star of the football team.
One thing has been overlooked. This kid got half credit for one assignment and he wasn’t eligible for football? One assignment! Talk about skating it thin. That kid needs to keep his stick on the ice. Fire the teacher? The parents should hire him as a tutor. I don’t think anyone will be mistaking that kid for a Harvard scholar anytime soon. Hope that football thing works out because I’m hearing “Want fries with that?” in his inevitable future.
The student who sleeps in class harms no one but himself. Last time I checked, the USA was a free country, and that includes the freedom to fail. It’s no one’s business if he sleeps, and if the teacher can’t find an objective measure of knowledge from the curriculum that exposes a deficit due to sleeping in class, then it’s none of the teacher’s business. As far as the student not having done the assignment himself, people are innocent until PROVEN guilty, and if this teacher is as good as Stacy claims, then he should be able to do so, OBJECTIVELY BASED ON SOUND EVIDENCE, NOT MERELY HIS BRUISED EGO AT SOMEONE FINDING HIS LECTURES BORING.
Who are these people posting these comments? Did you even graduate from high school?!? Having attended Dacula High School myself, I can tell the rest of you that it is by far one of the best public schools in Georgia and it has stayed that way b/c of teachers like Doc Neace. I resent the fact that such a teacher, one who has had a positive impact on the lives of many students, would be fired over such a situation. It was the student who was being insubordinate…not the teacher. Dacula is a town run by the football program, where its players slide by and eventually end up jobless b/c they have no education. Let us wait 10 years and find out where this football player ends up…and then let us think of where he would be had he been forced to pay the consequences of his actions.
I am a transfered student from Dacula presently at a new school inh the same local area. My junior year I had Doc as a physics teacher. Knowing first hand how this man teaches, i have to say he is very tough. I failed Doc class due to his extreme knowledge of his profession. The majority of the kids who passed his class were his Advanced or Honors classes. Sleeping should never be a factor in a students grade. A lot of teachers probly by now are worried to even say anything to a student who sleeps in class due to afraid of being fired. The matter is yes Doc was wrong, but the school is also taking to big of a step to try and solve the sistuation. At first I was kinda glad that he was fired, but reflecting on the sisuation, Dr. Nutt is just plain being a “NUT”!! This school has had problems for many years and needs to be fixed. Hate that that you failed me Doc., but hopefully the system won’t fail you. Good Luck and keep teaching.
I did my senior year in Dacula after transferring to Dacula from a school in New Jersey. Doc was a great teacher. I think the argument about not following your supervisor’s instructions is an important point in all this. I was at the hearing until 3:00 AM in the morning. Doc indeed did not follow his supervisor’s instructions after he had been yelled and cursed at by a parent in front of his principal for the better part of a half hour. He then was given an instruction to change a grade, an action, according to Georgia’s Professional Standards Commission, could cost him his license to teach. He contacted the PSC and never got an answer about the issue of changing this student’s grade. Even in the last hours, Doc maintained he would change the grade if PSC could assure him the action would not cost him his license. Was he absolved of ethical issues when he was given written instructions? Gwinnett Public Schools seems to think Doc had no right to have his ethical concerns answered. The director of Gwinnett Public Schools human resources said that this was not a PSC issue, even though Doc would instantly loose his job if he lost his license. The superintendent said, he had no “right” to do that. Amazing how ethics do not matter anymore. Well, our Army is sending kids to Leavenworth for following commands unquestionably from their superiors. Maybe I am being melodramatic, but the line should be drawn so that we do not become unethical robots. Doc not only had a right, but an obligation to not follow the instruction.
it is a travesty that a teacher which was obviously such a wonderful educator would be dismissed for what is, at its root, a ridiculous issue, but i must object to some previous comments made on the subject. to imply that athletics are only for the slow-witted is a foolish and quite unintelligent notion. the person that stated that “he is the only male not know as ‘coach’” is obviously hinting that anyone going by ‘coach’ must be stupid or not be a real teacher; i find this idiotic and completely subjective. if the teachers at that school happen to be sub-par i hardly think it fair to say the correlation must be that they are involved in sports. the type of people who generally make statemnts liekt hat are often tose who would never be good at sports and immerse themselves in feminist lesbian lifestyles and those which would force them to be ‘tolerant’ of everyone except housewives, conservatives, religious (the creed matters not) and, apparently, sports coaches. But, i digress.
At any rate, i feel that the teacher should be reinstated as quickly as possible and the student’s grade changed. if the principal orders the teacher to do something, no matter how idiotic, it shold be done, because the principal is the boss. if the teacher still has a grievance he can address it with the school board or superintendant-if the result is still unsatisfactory, then perhaps he should not concern himself with it further-he did his job, thats all he is required to do. if he wants to do more, than he should be prepared to face the consequences (in this case, dismissal)
doc was a great teacher. I had him last year in physics and he was very fair. He was a dependable teacher that you could goto for help in any subject and he would be more than willing to help. I cant help it my principal is a mindless, ignorant moron and focuses only on football
“the person that stated that “he is the only male not know as ‘coach’” is obviously hinting that anyone going by ‘coach’ must be stupid or not be a real teacher; i find this idiotic and completely subjective. if the teachers at that school happen to be sub-par i hardly think it fair to say the correlation must be that they are involved in sports. the type of people who generally make statemnts liekt hat are often tose who would never be good at sports and immerse themselves in feminist lesbian lifestyles and those which would force them to be ‘tolerant’ of everyone except housewives, conservatives, religious (the creed matters not) and, apparently, sports coaches.”
Is that so.
I gave two of many valid specific experiences regarding these wonderful talented teachers called “Coach” at Dacula. Nothing “subjective” about blatant incompetence. Yes, they were stupid and no, they were not “real teachers.” They were coaches who were required to teach in order to coach. My implications are 100% valid and unless you have experienced these coaches as I have, well ma’am I suggest you don’t have a leg to stand on in defending them.
Your personal rant about me shows your ignorance - you must have had lots of coaches as teachers, or perhaps you ARE a coach who happens to teach at Dacula - to assume that a conservative card-carrying Republican soldier’s housewife (with a brother who played football at Dacula and agrees with me) must be a lesbian feminist for standing up for a great teacher in the sea of moronic coaches that is my alma matter - well that is laughable… thanks!
lol… I awoke to find I’d been falsely accused of a myriad of presumptive “crimes” and got a bit carried away… All coaches are not stupid, just all the ones I had as teachers at Dacula. Feel better there, HMM, honey? Maybe if you spent less time worrying about lesbian feminists you wouldn’t make such an idiot of yourself. Have a nice day.
First lets get a few facts straight. The grade was reduced from a 100 to a 50. This grade did not affect the student’s overall grade in any way. I believe it was a lab grade and it is kinda hard to get a 100 on a lab you slept through unless you cheated. That being said, according to the rules Doc should not have done what he did. The problem I have with this situation is that the school approved his syllabus which clearly stated students who sleep in class will have their participation grades reduced. The only reason this is even an issue is because stuff like this happens at Dacula all the time. I am currently a student there and know all parties involved in this case and it is DEFINATELY a case of the administration using a small incident to get rid of a teacher that has been a thorn in their side. Donald Nutt is quite possibly the most incapable principal in the state of Georgia. The man was hired because of his “Good Ol’ Boy” connections and is not qualified to perform the duties of principal. Because of this, the head football coach and AD Maloof uses him as a tool to create the best football environment he can. Whats sad is that Dacula has run off one of its last great teachers. People who went to Dacula know the names Gross, Herb, Powell, and now finally Neace. Hopefully one day soon they will realize what they are doing and make some changes starting at the top.
Oh yeah and the student wasn’t borderline losing eligibility either… hes like a 3.5 student and I believe has a B in the class.
Ms. Pelham was the one other good one I remember, but it looks like she left, too. Must’ve been before your time, “Umm”.
- a participation score needs to be separate from a performance based score on an individual assignment.
- Teachers are subordinate to the administration. He could not lose his license unless it could be shown the order was somehow unethical.
- It’s very easy to sleep through a lab and get 100 without cheating. I did it several times.
-I’m sure this guy is a wonderful teacher, but that just means it’s a shame he’s letting his EGO and PRIDE deprive students of the benefit of his better qualities.
- Grade students on whether they learn, not on whether they hang on your every word like groupies. If sleeping is a real problem for a student it will show up in their objective performance. If you want to impart knowledge, and are willing to grade on knowledge and performance, become a teacher - if you want attention, go into politics or start a cult.
FYI from a former student of Doc Neace’s:
Regular Board meetings are held on the second Thursday of each month at 7 p.m. In 2005, the only exception occurs in June. Meetings are held in the Board Room at Lawrenceville East, 723 Hi-Hope Road in Lawrenceville. A schedule of 2005 meetings appears below. Citizens are encouraged to attend so that they can become better acquainted with the operation and programs of the school system.
2005 Board of Education Meetings: January 13, February 10, March 10, April 14, May 12, June 23, July 14, August 11, September 8, October 13, November 10, and December 8
Procedures for Addressing the Board:
The agenda is prepared in advance of each meeting. Anyone wishing to speak before the Board should inform the Superintendent’s office in writing by noon on the Monday prior to the Board meeting. Items for the agenda may be suggested by any Board member, staff member, or citizen.
Before each regular meeting, a public forum is held at 6:30 p.m. to allow persons not on the agenda an opportunity to address the Board. Citizens may sign up at the Board meeting to speak during the 30-minute public forum period. Speakers are asked to keep their comments brief, and no Board action is taken.
“- Teachers are subordinate to the administration. He could not lose his license unless it could be shown the order was somehow unethical.”
That’s exactly why he DIDN’T change the grade, because it would have been unethical and he could have lost his license. He was simply waiting on assurance from the state that he wouldn’t lose his license before he changed it.
“-I’m sure this guy is a wonderful teacher, but that just means it’s a shame he’s letting his EGO and PRIDE deprive students of the benefit of his better qualities.”
Rest assured dweeb, “EGO” and “PRIDE” had nothing to do with it, unless you are speaking of the EGO and PRIDE of the sleeping football player and his parents.
Thanks Megan - I will most likely attend.
What is needed is a central place (webpage, listserv or something) where people can organize some sort of reaction to GCS board’s idiocy. I think this is well past the point of talking about it…we need to take back our school system. We were able to influence one board member, but this issue should be raised with the voters in the other districts in Gwinnett County. There is just no end to the number of good teachers that these people will run out if they have their way.
“What is needed is a central place (webpage, listserv or something) where people can organize some sort of reaction to GCS board’s idiocy.”
I am looking into this. I will post on all blogs if we do it.
I’m sorry guys, I looked into it and I just don’t have the know-how myself to make a webpage. Anyone else want to give it a whirl? I am willing to contribute cash towards the hosting fee if that helps.
i am a student at dhs. i do not play football, i do not have doc nease and i do not know doc nease. the bottom line is that even though he had been doing this for 15 years (since the county policy went into effect), it was against the county’s rules. he was fired for insubordination not flunking a football player. the football team is not the best in the state or the region. nease broke the rule and he payed the price.
“i am a student at dhs. i do not play football, i do not have doc nease and i do not know doc nease. the bottom line is that even though he had been doing this for 15 years (since the county policy went into effect), it was against the county’s rules. he was fired for insubordination not flunking a football player. the football team is not the best in the state or the region. nease broke the rule and he payed the price.”
It’s always a tough call when your boss tells you to do something that is not right. On the other hand, most good supervisors will think of firing even an average employee as a “loose-loose” option - a last resort. What surprises me is how quickly this situation escalated. Over the course of two working days we went from argument to suspension to Doc getting told he had two options- quit or be fired.
So, why was there not an attempt at dispute resolution? Why was Doc’s valid ethical arguments ignored? Was it just bad supervision and management, or was it something more than just the grade at play?
I sent a letter regarding Doc Neace to my school board rep several weeks ago and copied all the other members and have not heard one word back from any of them on it. It is VERY obvious that Mr. Seckinger, my rep, does not represent us well, nor does he care about his constituents concerns. Pathetic.
I want my stapler!!!
i had doc this year..the year he got fired…and you people who went to dacula way back in 93 have no clue what you are saying..the kid has strait A’s and im friends with him..and saying that us football player end up jobless is the stupidest thing ive heard in a long time. our average grade on the football team is an 85 in ALL our class.the on in particular has starit A’s. things have changed since 93 MISS STACEY.were not out in the boondocks anymore.i dont see how it is wrong he got fired if the board of educators thought he should get fired.i thought he was a fine teacher..but he got what he deserved ..he didnt listen to what his BOSS told him to. what happens when you do that anywhere else? you get fired to? so whats the big deal!?!?!
I just happened to see this story while reading some information about Georgia schools. Can anyone please let me know if Doc Nease is still teaching & where is he.
I think that the situation was unfortunate. As an educator, I understand that some students fall asleep in class. I also understand that some students disrupt the classroom by doing other behaviors. I simply believe that Mr. Nease was trying to maintain a proper learning environment. His tactic of penalizing the student for sleeping was against the board policy, and he probably did not know it was. So, that is where things get gray.
Many people argued that a student has the right to sleep in class. Well, most parents do not want their children to sleep in class. So, if a teacher allows that to occur they get in trouble. If Mr. Nease would have let the boy sleep…others had the same right….and it would have made sleeping and any other negative classroom behavior seem ok. Thus, hendering the learning process. Plus, waking up people gets kinda old….
Mr. Nease could handle his class by running to administration every time something goes wrong or students do not comply with the classroom rules. Oh..no he could not….they would say he does not manage his classroom behavior well.
I guess it would be ok for students to sleep through materials and come back later for tutoring right????
I wish I could take a football and wing it at the guy’s face. And his parents, too.
I don’t see how you think that being in football gives you the authority to complain and get someone fired.
Theres nothing wrong with sleeping in class. Thats the kids own problem. That teacher was a moron. He deserved to be banned. What an idiot.
Sleeping in class is something that should never entice a teacher to lower a student’s grade. By sleeping in class it is their right, if they so wish to do it. The point in going to school is to learn and some students learn by reading the books and not by listening to the teachers. No student, as long as they don’t disturb others, should get punished because they are there to figure out by them selfs who they are and how they best study. Students are forced into school at a young age and by taking points off discourages freedoms and sometimes even prohibits kids from being their true selfs, or who they are. You cannot make a horse drink you can only lead them to the water. Teachers do not know the kids and do not know the problems some have outside of class. A lot of kids I know only get a couple of hours of sleep a night because of family problems. And taking points off for that is just absurd.