Forgotten list gets student suspended and recommended for expulsion
C. Fla. 8th-grader faces expulsion for ‘kill list’
An eighth grade student at Teague Middle School in the Seminole County Public Schools was getting picked on. He made a list in his journal titled “Kill List” and put the names of his thirteen tormentors on it. Months later the list was forgotten and he was friends with some of the kids.
The names were found when the assistant principal confronted the boy after hearing he might have a cigarette lighter. She leafed through his journal and saw a drawing of a knife dripping blood before the list caught her attention.
The student is serving a 10-day suspension, and school officials are recommending expulsion.
Let’s paint a picture. The administrator gets an anonymous tip that a student has a lighter. A lighter is a major infraction - it violates both the weapon and the drug policies. Catching a kid with a lighter is a major score for her. She pulls him aside. She searches him. She discovers that the tip was wrong. Either that or the little criminal got rid of it. She searches him for any contraband but doesn’t find any. She takes his books and papers and starts looking through them for anything she might be able to nail him on. And there it is - a violent drawing and a list of names. Bingo! Party in the principal’s office. The mighty administrator has caught the delinquent and single handedly made the school a better place.
I wonder if she had a quota to meet or if she’s working on a bounty system.
Contact Information:
Superintendent Bill Vogel
School Boardmember Diane Bauer
School Boardmember Barry Gainer
School Boardmember Jeanne Morris
School Boardmember Sandra Robinson
School Boardmember Dede Schaffner
Dean of Students Paul Harshman
Principal Roger Gardner
8th Grade Administrator Ginny Brouillard
(Tip credit to Matt Crosby)
So let me get this straight… she was searching for a lighter in a notebook?
Mine Also Had a List I Wanted to Maim
From Zero Intelligence:An eighth grade
Yes. They make everything smaller these days; cars, computers, lighters.
The list is disturbing, but the over reaction of the administrators is even more disturbing. The invasion of this student’s privacy because of the suspicion of a lighter is incredible. Yes, once the list was found, an investigation should have been done (even though I think it is terrible that students have lost all their rights under the constitution as soon as they step on public school property or school functions)but the assumption of guilty until proved innocent is getting really old. Why aren’t more parents taking a stand in this country against this???? When study after study shows that expulsion and suspension does nothing to correct the bad behavior and nothing to deter others from doing it, why do we continue to do it? Other then to give a false impression that our schools are safer without these “bad kids” in them??? Expulsion did not help the innocent victims of the most recent school shooting. That student was expelled from school and went to the school with a loaded gun and killed innocent students and teachers. Now they say that possibly 20 other students knew about the plan. All this over reaction and expulsion is due to “post Columbine”. Unfortanately, I think we are hurting so many more students then we are helping. Our communities might not be any safer with these kids that get expelled and on the streets everyday and end up dropping out of school. It is time to break this cycle….
Deb, I agree. Educators went to congress to express support for zt. It’s time parents did too. Our communities are not safer and our children are not becoming better citizens from zt.
You guys don’t get it. After Columbine the school would be stupid not to suspend someone who has a “kill list” As we saw in Minnesota, once the dam is broken on bringing weapons to school and killing a bunch of people, others will follow.
Part of educating kids is to intervene with those who are mentally disturbed. Their writings and drawings are indications as to their mental condition. The schools have to intervene if the kid is disturbed to protect that kid and others. As is usually the case, we only get part of the story. The rest is private and should remain private. My guess, however, from 33 years of teaching is that the kid had indicated by his behavior, writings and comments to adults and other students that he was disturbed and possibly violent. The intervention of the principal was a normal extension of such information being shared with the administration.
I hope the school district does more than expel the kid. Being expelled doesn’t mean what it used to mean. Probably there is an alternative placement and a demand for counseling. I hope so. This kid, if he made a “kill” list is sick and needs help. We can’t take a chance on him joking about a “kill list”.
barry
Barry, I agree that a “Kill List” is a serious matter. I agree that he needs help. (Then again, if he’s telling the truth and has since befriended his potential victims, maybe he has already found the help he needed.)
However, expulsion is not a means of help by any stretch of the imagination. Expulsion doesn’t erase the Kill List or take a gun out of a child’s hands. It only further troubles a troubled child. So long as the student is not a major disruption to the academic process, expulsion has no benefit. Rather, expelling the student only allows the school district to pass responsibility for him to someone else.
As a therapist who works with teens in group home foster placement, I can tell you there is a point the school must as Barry writes take action to at least appear to be trying to protect all the kids and staff at the school. Suspension and expulsion rarely if ever “trouble” this type of child. It would be interesting to hear from and know about the parents of this child…after all I would hope they would at least be a part of “the someone else” whom the school district is trying to pass responsibility to…These kids need more “help” than school is designed to provide…and should most definitely GET that help as well as be held accountable…
“As we saw in Minnesota, once the dam is broken on bringing weapons to school and killing a bunch of people, others will follow.”
Barry, what are you talking about? The kid in Minnesota was expelled at the time of the shootings. Perhaps even the expulsion (on top of the bullying, and Prozac, and his general family condition) triggered the massacre. Who knows? But, what is well known, and has been repeated in several studies now, including one from the FBI, is that expulsion/suspension doesn’t solve the problem — there are many other interventions, though, that do, and have been successfully employed in other, non-zero-tolerance, school districts.
Post-Columbine, for liability’s sake, school administrator’s shouldn’t ignore kill lists, and drawings, etc. By that token, they shouldn’t ignore bullying too; but - as your experience can probably verify - they do, as the typical response to a bullying complaint is “if I (the teacher) don’t see it, there’s nothing I can do”. Bullying seems just as endemic in school today as it was back in my time. In any case, though, liability can be protected by merely investigating each violent imagery/speech case, and responding measuredly and appropriately, not toss the same “terroristic threat”/1-year explusion sentence on every case.
And no, not every “kill list” or “I’m gonna kill ya” muttering is a sign of a mentally-ill kid. Sometimes it’s just stupidity speaking; just ask Homer Simpson.
Kill lists dont mean anything by them selves. If the princible had sent him to the counciler to discuss why hefelt that thos people belong on kill list then I might think that this dimwitted egotistical powerhungry child abusing POS might have felt some concern. But she couldnt find what she wanted searched and found somthing else to get rid of him.
I had a kill list in high school, and I never so much as threw a single punch in all of my years in school. But now barry is telling me that I am sick, and I need counciling.
Screw you, barry.
Someone whose kill list is meaningful will never let it be discovered. If you find a list, and the list maker knows it, then he knows he’s lost the element of surprise. Post armed guards for a while and send him back to class.
hmm, fascinating string.
barry, i see your point, and it’s a good one. however, i am going to have to concur with the majority of posts here and say the administrator was trying to wipe the yolk off her face. expelling children who are troubled is not a solution - it’s a stopgap that results in further problems. if your roof is leaking, and you move to a different room, it doesn’t mean your roof is not leaking anymore - expelling a kid doesn’t negate the systemic issue. if he had a kill list, that’s understandable. i’ve dealt with bullies before - if i meet any of them today, i will more than likely shake their hand and laugh at how horrible their lives are. it’s natural for a kid to express themselves in writing. when that writing becomes actualized violently - that’s when things have gone too far.
in sum, talk to the kid, talk to the bullies, talk to the parents, give him detention maybe, but don’t suspend/expel. that’s just silly.
-g