Expelled for not ratting
What’s a good way to force students to inform on their peers? Expel them when they don’t. Two students of Morristown-Hamblen High School East in the Hamblen County School District were just expelled for failing to turn in their friends.
The administrative investigation into the recent bomb threats at Morristown-Hamblen High School East resulted in the expulsion of five East High students Monday, Dr. Dale Lynch, director of schools said this morning.
The students were expelled from the Hamblen County school system for one calendar year following a due-process hearing involving their parents or legal guardians, according to Lynch.
Last week, police charged one female and two male students with one or more felony counts of making a false report for allegedly calling in bomb threats to East High on Jan. 28, Feb. 16 and Feb. 22.
The two other East High students did not make a false bomb threat, but allegedly were with the suspects when a call was made, and failed to notify school administration or police, according to Lynch.
These two students did nothing, and were expelled for it. Can you imagine the uproar if this concept was forced into the real world? How would you like to get a ticket because you saw somebody run a red light and failed to call the police? How about spending some time behind bars because you didn’t report that friend who occasionally smokes marijuana?
With this action the school is transferring criminal culpability to the witnesses of a crime. The only way to stay safe is to tattle on everybody for everything.
Lynch says he wished the 9,600-plus students who aren’t allegedly committing crimes received as much attention as the six - and now, possibly seven - students who face expulsion
Only six or seven kids, that’s a relief.
maybe they’ll get religon:
The education options include home-schooling, private school or an approved church or church satellite school, where students complete their work at home.
You can get into lots of trouble in public schools today that have a “snitch” policy if you don’t rat out your friends and classmates if you know that they’ve done something against the rules. You’re sort of deputized by the school district to help them enforce their rules. Maybe snitches should ask for some kind of stipend. I don’t think the school offers them 24/7 protection even.
The unfortunate thing about snitch policies is that in many cases, students make up stories about kids they don’t like, and the kids get in trouble under zero-tolerance. Of course, the school doesn’t bother to really “investigate” the “crime.” They just take the snitches’ word for it in order to encourage more snitches to come forward in the future. Kids are also encouraged to “snitch” on family members — drugs in the home, Mom falling down drunk, child abuse — things that were of no business to the schools at one time.
Face it, we live in a “snitch” society, just like in Nazi Germany.
I think your anologies are a bit out a whack. They were not expelled just because they saw them do something wrong, but because they were there WITH them when they did it. A false bomb threat is a crime ( felony? ) iirc, and so one is guilty just by being there during such a thing, which makes them accomplices.
With marijuana, its not a crime to not report someone that smokes it near you. If you are not smoking it or do not have any on you, you have not committed a crime… But if you were with individuals who call in a false bomb threat and do nothing about it… And I mean, actually with them and knew what was happening… Then yeah, you’re an accomplice to that crime.
Maybe they should not have received the same punishment… But that’s another discussion. They did do something wrong and they did deserve to be punished.
There’s a difference between “I saw Bob doing something bad, and I’m not telling”, and “I was with Bob when he did something illegal”. The driver of the getaway car has broken the law just as much as the ones who robbed the bank. The passerby on the street who sees it happen has not.
The story does say these other kids were “with the suspects when the call was made”. Without knowing more details, I’d have to say that these other kids may be considered “accomplices”.
I disagree. If I am with somebody who is smoking marijuana but I do not smoke it I have committed no crime. If we talk about it beforehand I still have not committed a crime. I am only an accomplice if I actively assist in the crime.
I know that I was told by a elementary school administrator that she did ‘favors’ for people who told her things. She didn’t know me and the person she alluded to as her ’snitch’ was someone I was teaching to drive. Her snitch was motivated and well rewarded for ‘finding things’, although, her credibility was poor. She knew about her own family members and reported on negative comments IMO. The administration used this input as general gossip and successfully had families ostracized, and I believe violently attacked. In effect she used the position of authority to validate the claims of callous, and dubious claims.
The problem is exaggeration, invasion of privacy and reasonable doubt are factors that are made more rediculous because the kids are immature. Immature, ostracized kids thrown out of society may find fanatical religon to heal their wounds. Isn’t that something we fear?
I’d like to know where the kids were in relation to the ones that called in the bomb threat. If they were in a store, for example, and several aisles away, they may not have known about what is going on.
One thing I can say though, as a lurker and a victim of a ZT when I was a HS (year of Columbine), is that I have no trust for pretty much anything the schools say anymore. They tend to be a bunch of liars motivated out of a desire to protect their fiefdoms.
I’ve never bought into that rubbish about America losing the culture war because of drugs and the FCC not “doing enough” in regard to TV sex and violence. America lost the culture war when we let the schools become prison camps and let them establish what amounts to an English-speaking 4th reich body politic and culture within our own country’s schools.
Mr. Trask: Mr. Sims, you are a cover-up artist and you are a liar.
Col. Frank Slade: But not a snitch!
Trask: Excuse me?
Slade: No, I don’t think I will. This is such a crock of sh*t.
Trask: Mr. Slade, you will watch your language. You are at the Baird School now not a barracks. Now Mr. Sims I will give you one final opportunity to speak up.
Slade: Mr. Sims doesn’t want it. He doesn’t need to labeled, “…still worthy of being a ‘Baird Man.’” What the hell is that? What is your motto here? Boys, inform on your classmates, save your hide. Anything short of that we’re gonna burn you at the stake? Well, gentlemen. When the going gets tough, some guys run and some guys stay. Here’s Charlie–facing the fire, and there’s George–hiding in big Daddy’s pocket. And what are you gonna do? You’re gonna reward George, and destroy Charlie.
Trask: Are you finished, Mr. Slade?
Slade: No. I’m just gettin’ warmed up. Now I don’t know who went to this place–William Howard Taft, William Jennings Bryant, William Tell–whoever. Their spirit is dead; if they ever had one, it’s gone. You’re building a rat ship here. A vessel for sea going snitches. And if you think your preparing these minnows for manhood you better think again. Because I say you are killing the very spirit this institution proclaims it instills. What a sham! What kind of show are you guys puttin’ on here today. I mean, the only class in this act is sittin’ next to me. And I say, this boy’s soul is in tact. It is non-negotiable. You know how I know. Because someone here–I’m not gonna say who–offered to buy it. Only Charlie here wasn’t selling.
Mr.Trask: Sir, you are out of order!
Slade: Out of order, I’ll show you out of order! You don’t know what out of order is Mr.Trask! I’d show you but I’m too old, I’m too tired, and I’m too f**kin’ blind. If I were the man I was five years ago I’d take a flame-thrower to this place. Out of order, who the hell do you think you’re talking to? I’ve been around you know? There was a time I could see. And I have seen, boys like these, younger than these, their arms torn out, their legs ripped off. But there isn’t nothin’ like the sight of an amputated spirit, there is no prosthetic for that. You think you’re merely sending this splendid foot-soldier back home to Oregon with his tail between his legs but I say that you are executing his soul. And why? Because he’s not a Baird man. Baird men, you hurt this boy, you’re going to be Baird Bums, the lot of ya. And Harry, Jimmy, Trent, wherever you are out there, f**k you too.
Mr. Trask: Stand down Mr. Slade!
Slade: I’m not finished! Now as I came in here, I heard those words…cradle of leadership. Well, when the bough breaks, the cradle will fall. And it has fallen here, it has fallen! Makers of men, creators of leaders, be careful what kind of leaders you’re producing here. Now, I don’t know if Charlie’s silence here today is right or wrong; I’m no judge or jury. But I can tell you this: he won’t sell anybody out to buy his future! And that my friends is called integrity, that’s called courage. Now that’s the stuff leaders should be made of. (pause) Now I have come to the crossroads in my days, and I have always known the right path, always, without exception, I knew. But I never took it, you know why? Because it’s too damn hard. Now here’s Charlie; he’s come to the crossroads. And he’s chosen a path, it’s the right path. It’s a path made of principle, that leads to character. Let him continue on his journey. You hold this boy’s future in your hands committee! It’s a valuable future. Believe me! Don’t destroy…protect it…embrace it. It’s gonna make you proud some day…I promise.
I don’t know if they should have been expelled, but they were an accessory after the fact. That is one who knowing a felony to have been committed by another. From the US law:
ACCESSORY AFTER THE FACT - Whoever, knowing that an offense has been committed, receives, relieves, comforts or assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial or punishment, is an accessory after the fact; one who knowing a felony to have been committed by another, receives, relieves, comforts, or assists the felon in order to hinder the felon’s apprehension, trial, or punishment. U.S.C. 18
No. Unreported knowledge is not a crime. The statue is very specific that a person must “receive, relieve, comfort or assist in order to hinder apprehension, trial or punishment”.
Hinder is active. You must DO something in order to hinder the authorities. Simply keeping your mouth shut is a passive action.
Now I am not Lawyer, Not even sure I spelled it right, but I watched enough law an order to tell you, That just being there is not enough to prosicute for anything. They have to prove that boys knew what was going on and had some part in it. like egging the others on, or activly lying about what happened when questioned.
I don’t know how to email this info to you, but here is a completely different incident you may not have heard. A NJ teacherknocks a student out of his seat for not standing for the anthem. A student video taped the scene, and received 10 days of suspension for it. The teacher seems to have not been reprimanded at all. Allegedly, the district urged the teacher, stuart mantel to sue the taping student.
http://nyc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/142004/index.php
I have kids in public school. I would darn well like to know that the students around them have enough sense to report the threat-makers when we’re talking about BOMBS. There is a huge difference between “ratting” on someone for a minor infraction, and going to the authorities with information about bomb threats made against public buildings.
Many of the rants posted so far here with this article are examples of people who have no use for the school system, people who feel the USA is somehow drifting towards a Nazi Germany type of government just because we have laws, or people who want to offer legal interpretations of the issues presented. The issue here is far more basic…
…it’s called “social conscience.”
There’s a big difference between reporting red-light-runners and kids who smoke a little pot (or, maybe even a lot of pot), and reporting kids who make bomb threats; kids who think it is somehow funny in this day-and-age of school shootings and terrorists flying planes into buildings to call in bomb threats at public institutions.
Is the discipline too harsh (a year of suspension)? Maybe…but the notion that these kids are doing something noble by not reporting what they know about the bomb threats is unconscionable.
This school is *** stupid.Period.
[Edited by site owner.]
The issue is false bomb threats. I know of a case where a false bomb threat to a nursing home resulting in the death of an elderly person. I don’t want to trivalize the offense, but fair justice is important. It was a game to close school for the day. A 14 year old emailed a threat to his middle school, which shut down the school and threats followed at the high school. Similar events had occurred on Jan. 28 and Feb. 17. It needed to stop.
Police cleared the building approximately two hours later.
Students electing to go home were given unexcused absences, according to Ayers.
Police say East High students and staff assisted with the investigation, but Lynch says the trio unwittingly placed themselves on the short lift of suspects. That’s because they were either absent on the three days the bomb threats were called in, or left school following a bomb threat.
Two Colonial Middle School students in Memphis were suspended when one student joked during a weapons check, “I should’ve worn my trench coat today,” and another said, “They didn’t get my gun,” Principal David Forster said. The boys were suspended for at least three days.
We have the same kind of stuff around here. If the school doesn’t find a kid or two to hang it doesn’t make the paper. We have lots of security cameras, bugs, and kids who aren’t learning much. Lots of kids who have professional parents and aren’t going to make it to college. Instead of drawing attention to the poor methods forced on teachers, skyrocketing special ed, financial corruption and huge expense of security. We are distracted by the misbehavior that accompanies kids receiving a poor education.
We need to fix the system and restore sanity. Punish the right kids with the right punishment that fits the crime.
Obidavekenobi,
I dont think that we are trying to make what they did sound noble, cept maybe for the Movie recap. I Just dont believe that school should be able to punish some one for not reporting and incident. Quite frankly it the parents had done their job the ethical part of the equation would have taken care of itself. And if the school board had done its job then the students would have probably never gone through with it. For those kids who did make the threat they should be punished, as should any one who had something to do with it. But just being there is not a reason for punishment. And the kids had no obligation other than ethical to report it.
According to the parts quoted ( I did not read the actual article ), there are two things they did wrong… And in order of it being mentioned:
1) They were WITH the students that made the threat.
2) They did not tell anyone what they knew and so, by inference, they became willing accomplices because they were WITH the students when the threat was made.
Jim:
I disagree. If I am with somebody who is smoking marijuana but I do not smoke it I have committed no crime. If we talk about it beforehand I still have not committed a crime. I am only an accomplice if I actively assist in the crime.
That’s not really true. You can certainly be an accessory to the crime if you were merely present. Not to mention that merely being present during the planning of a felony can also get you charged with conspiracy. Are you GUILTY of conspiracy? That’s for a jury to decide. But if you think one is never charged in the real world in such circumstances, you’re mistaken.
If you and your friend are sitting in his living room, and he is smoking a joint (while you are not), with, say, an ounce of the stuff sitting on the coffee table, and the police burst in, I guarantee you BOTH will be arrested and charged.
Now, SHOULD you be? That’s an issue we could argue. But I agree with the earlier poster that your analogy doesn’t quite work. There is a difference between a bystander and an accomplice, and I think it’s reasonable to suspect that these kids might have been the latter.
Where I agree with you is that they should not be charged with failing to inform on their friends. That, I agree, is ridiculous. But I also don’t think these kids should have gotten off scott-free when they might very well be accessories to a felony.
Actually, several of us here are professional educators (current or former or retired) who teach/taught in the public school systems in different parts of the country. We’ve noted a trend that we believe is detrimental to the education of our students, one which has grave implications for our country if it becomes “accepted practice” in the courts at large (after all, we are supposed to be teaching citizenship and patriotism — doe these practices do that?).
These kids probably should be disciplined, but not to the same degee as the callers UNLESS they knew that the calls were being made before hand and didn’t try to stop or report them. If they sat cheering them on, that is a different matter.
The analogies of smoking pot and running stop signs just doesn’t work with false bomb threats. Besides, I suspect that something in the student code of conduct requires students to report such things as bomb threats.
The penalty may be a bit stiff, but there is some merit to it.