Teachers’ group wants to classify BB guns as deadly weapons
School board to meet with RCB teachers in dispute over student
RCB teachers want BB guns classified as deadly weapons. Why? Because without that classification a student was recently punished with a mere 10 day suspension for having one in school. If the BB gun he had brought to school had been a deadly weapon a 12 month expulsion would have been mandatory under a state zero tolerance law.
The teachers are upset that the board unanimously voted to suspend a student for 10 days who brought a BB-gun to school and concealed it, instead of expelling the student for the year.
The board’s decision went against the recommendation of Harrison County Schools Superintendent Carl Friebel and school principal Leon Pilewski that the student be expelled for one year. The board placed the student on in-school suspension for the rest of the first semester, instead of expulsion.
“We’re concerned with the precedent that this board decision sets, and we’re also concerned with the safety of the students,” said RCB Faculty Chair Mary Beth Paletta.
I’m not sure what the problem is here. You don’t bring BB guns to school. In this case the student brought it in a box and was going to sell it to a friend. It wasn’t brandished, wasn’t used to threaten anybody, wasn’t even removed from the box. A ten day suspension seems to take into account the actual severity of the offense. Categorizing a non-deadly weapon as a deadly weapon simply to increase the severity of the punishment and to remove the discretion of the Board seems incredibly stupid to me.
On the other hand, expelling the kid for a year would equivocate a BB gun with an actual gun. No, wait a second. That’s exactly what they want to do so I guess that is just a second look at the same hand.
School board President Sally Cann said she stands by the board’s decision for suspension instead of expulsion.
“Foremost is safety of students and staff,” Cann said. “The board did not think their safety was in jeopardy.”
Now that’s the sort of board president I like to see. One who not only uses her head but isn’t ashamed of the usage.
Obviously you don’t work in a school. Any type of gun is dangerous and it is illegal to bring it to schools. Often you can;’t tell the difference between a real gun, a pellet gun (is that a deadly weapon?), a bb gun, a water gun, or a play gun. Carrying guns around schools is wrong — We punish the kids for a reason. That kid knew he wasn’t to bring it to school. He could (and we would never know he did it unless another kid complained) have used it to intimidate someone, threaten someone, or injure someone. He also could have aimed it at a cop and been killed.
There is no good reason to bring a BB gun to school. He should have been expelled.
I agree he should have been punished. So did the school board. He’s been suspended for 10 days. That’s a hefty suspension.
Bringing a BB gun to school is stupid and definitely against the rules. It is not, however, a deadly weapon. Can a person get killed if a cop mistakes their BB gun for a real one? Sure. That doesn’t make the BB gun a deadly weapon. Can somebody get hurt if they are shot with a BB gun? Yes. That still doesn’t make a BB gun a deadly weapon.
Defining a BB gun as the equivalent of an actual firearm does nothing except showcase a lack of understanding over what is actually deadly.
You said
He could (and we would never know he did it unless another kid complained) have used it to intimidate someone, threaten someone, or injure someone.
There is no evidence he did any of the above, you want to make possession of an object the crime instead of how the object is used. A car can be a tool or a weapon people don’t seem to have any problem making the distinction base on how it used. Why can’t we do the same with the BB gun?
Allan’s logic is compelling. Should a student be charged with possesion of a deadly weapon if they drive to school? After all, it does meet the teachers’ criteria.
What about baseball bats? They are a very deadly weapon.
Well, maybe they aren’t deadly, but being shot by one can cause a lot of problems.
A friends of ours has a son who was shot under the brow bone through his upper eyelid accidentally by his brother. It caused all sorts of medical problems, some of which will never go away, and the incident drove the whole family apart.
I object to students being suspended or expelled because of the sheer stupidity of school officials — kids drawing guns, going “bang-bang” with their fingers, having toy replicas of guns on GI Joe dolls. That kind of thing.
BB guns may not be deadly weapons, but they are dangerous. Any child who understands this (and that is the important threshold) should be punished if he/she brings it to school. And the parents should be punished also if they are complicit in the action.
As I said, the student should indeed be punished for bringing the BB gun into the school. He has been, with a 10 day suspension.
My problem here is with a basic precept of zero tolerance policies. A knife is a knife is a knife. A gun is a gun is a gun. A plastic butter knife is the same as a switchblade and a BB gun is the same as a rifle.
That is absolutely wrong. Zero tolerance policies are implemented to protect the administration. By broadly grouping and classifying offenses and specifying mandatory punishments by these artificial groupings they attempt to remove any culpability for using their brains.
“It’s not my fault. The policy mandates this punishment.”
“It’s important to show that we won’t tolerate weapons of any kind. We will make an example of anybody who violates these rules.”
What they all boil down to is “If I use my discretion I might make a mistake.”
I take it Barry is for Zero Tollerance in this case. I agree that they chose the right punishment in this case. No way should they be expelling him in this case.
Should BB guns be classified as a deadly weapon? I would probably have to say yes, they do have the potential to kill, especially if you shoot somebody through the eye (which is a direct window to the brain). I grew up around guns, and was always told to treat a BB gun just like a real gun.
HOWEVER, the *reason* they want to classify it as such is completely wrong. Instead of cramming everything possible into a one-size-fits-all zero tolerance policy, they should keep it as it is, and determine the punishment based on intent. If the gun was brought to school with the intent to plink somebody in the face, then that student SHOULD be expelled. If he wanted to just bring it in to show off, the 10 day suspension would make more sense.
I am glad this Administrator did the right thing.
A BB gun is not a deadly weapon. It can put a eye out. It can get you killed, if a excited person with a gun, thinks you have the real thing. Most toy manf. have had to change designs.
I am so thankful, I was allowed to have a childhood. Including playing cops and robbers, without any special interest groups getting involved.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/01/08/ctv.toy.guns/
I am sorry, Brenda, but a BB gun is not a toy gun. Whether or not it is a “deadly weapon” is up in the air, but I have heard of cases where people have been killed by a BB gun. I know for a fact that BB guns are useful for killing squirrels; my father used to do that as a young teen in backwoods North Carolina.
A shot through the temple or through the eye could very well kill a person. No “toy” I have ever heard of can do that. The CNN article you posted is making a grave mistake in painting BB guns with the same brush as water pistols. Like I said, I was always taught to treat a BB gun the exact same way as a “real” gun.
great
I agree with you Brenda I am only 15 but I have fired a variety of different guns from shotguns to rifles to pistols and in my opinion bb guns can be but are not regularly dangarous they can be but that would be in the hands of an inexperienced user in this case the kid got punished and that was a responsible thing that the parents should have delt with and the factor of weither it was the first time this sort of thing has happened was never taken into thought.
bb guns shouldnt be allowed at schools because it may be used in an inappropriate way however a 10 suspension i think is abit harsh since the gun was not used or intentially going to be used since it was in a box and was being sold to someone. IT WAS IN A BOX. Its not like bringing a knife to school. BB guns are just toys and my ass you can get killed if u point it at a cop… i mean y would u point it at a cop?? a 15year old wouldnt do that … [profanity removed]
10 days for a bb gun which was still in the box, maybe if it was an air pistol then you would expect a long suspension or even an expulsion. BB guns are not dangerous unless they are pointed in certain vulnerable points around the body, other than that the are certainly NOT “deadly” weapons
10 days for a bb gun come on it was in a box this was way to harsh. I am 13 I am an experienced gun user. My dad and I are part of a gun club. I own a bb gun and they’re not that dangerous!If your some weirdo who shoots other people with them or looks down the barrel when its not shooting then you should be suspended. This kid sounds like he was just selling the gun to his friend and it wasn’t even removed from the box. bb guns shouldn’t be allowed at school he did the wrong thing but I think the punishment was a bit harsh.
OK how can a BB gun be deadly there is a legal limit of 320fps on all guns sold especially here in the UK. this compared to the 8-900fps needed for penetration clearly shows that when used by a responsible person they are very safe its the idiots that givee genuine airsofters a bad name, in regards to the kid the gun was boxed and there was no intent to use in a menacing way. ok it was a bit stupid to sell it at school should really wait till ya get out and do it in ya own time but looking to expell the dude for being a bit stupid is foolish on behalf of the school board. Do you punish everyone to the full extent of the law and try to make an example out of them, i think not, so why do it to a young boy who made a mistake????
I don’t think he should have been suspended, he brought it to school but didn’t use it to threatened any one, he didn’t even take it out of the box. Weapons are only as dangerous as the person that is using it. The actual weapon isn’t dangerous unless some one was using it for the reason.
Take note that here are two types of bb guns. Airsoft guns which use plastic 6mm bbs that are actually meant to be shot at people who are participating in tactical gaming very similar paintball using velocities between 175-350fps (feet per second) and then there are pellet guns that use small metal bbs that are launched with a velocity between 480-600fps which can break the skin. These are use for killing small animals like squirrels. Both categories are reffered to as bb guns. However if one group is to be considered deadly pellet guns would more closely fit that description even though it really isn’t unless you hit some body in a sensitive area.
look, this is truly a stupid argument. lets think logically. the boy brought it to school in a box. the box was never opened. he was going to sell it. i assume since he had it in a box, thus making it legal to carry as merchandise then he knows something of law. and in knowing this then it is also safe to assume he could trust the person buying it. in this it seems it was not going to be used as an actual weapon. if lethal weapons are cause to expel someone or get them fired then every person in america would be on the streets. a pencil, the very intruments the students use to learn can also be used as a very efficient killing tool. it takes only nine pounds of force to drive a nail through human skin. an average man can swing at 50mph. thats more than enough force to kill a 150lb person. chances are this bb gun was a limited power air pistol. recently i have done research. a 500fps pellet gun gives out 138 joules of force. that translates into only 100 foot pounds. a normal .22 caliber round will give off at least 400. a .22 long round can be stopped from lethality with a thick leather jacket and some thick clothes. this means that it is VERY unlikely this gun will have done more than bruise. perhaps someone could have lost an eye but only if they managed to stay still as the boy aimed at the single inch of a target. as for a neck shot it would not matter much as instinctively the average person would duck not exposing it. it is not the weapon but the intent. a samurai that carries a sword is less dangerous than a fool with a knife. the first will not attack unprovoked while the latter may do something worth killing him over. having a decidedly possibly but improbably lethal weapon in school for the purpose of selling it to an assumingly intelligent individual by a responsible student is not something that requires expulsion. it does not even merit a suspension rather a talk and a warning.
THIS CONVERSATION ENDED YEARS AGO