Homosexuality apparently negates student achievements
Updated 20 July 2004: Clarifying comments from a Christian Scientist reader (at bottom of post)
A teacher at Church of Christ, Scientist took advantage of the temporarily relaxed marriage laws in Massachusetts to marry her lesbian lover (out of state couples are no longer being married there). The church fired her when she refused to repent. Her firing is a personnel issue - one I neither support nor wish to debate. What I have a serious problem about is this:
Kathleen Clementson returned her teaching credentials and left the church. Her former students are now considered by the Christian Science board of directors to have had no primary instruction.
Her homosexuality tainted and undermined knowledge that was previously dispensed? I wonder how long she worked there. Will they need to recall high school and college students to retake their grade school tests? Are any of her former students in the church seminary? If they’ve taught other students would that also not count? Is homosexual anti-knowledge like cooties where it stops after three exchanges? I’ll try to contact the church and find out.
UPDATE:
12:22 PM - I just got off the phone with the church. Kathleen was teaching a religious curriculum - the scriptures as used by the Christian Scientists.
(Tip credit to Where the Dolphins Play)
UPDATE
There’s a general lack of understanding here about the story, and while no expert, I am a Christian Scientist and maybe can correct a couple misconceptions (realizing I’m coming to the party a little late). The teaching or primary class instruction we’re talking about here is not traditional, but religious. Ms. Clementson was a teacher of Christian Science, not a secular school teacher. She taught adults Christian Science. The church’s decision to “fire” her is one issue many CS’ers are discussing; the decision to say her students are considered not to have had “class instruction” is a whole ‘nother topic. Class instruction in the (CS) sense is a key phrase that enables CS’ers to advance into various posts and more advanced types of instruction in the CS institution and may impact types of assignments in local branch churches. This isn’t anything radically different from other religions that require specific training in order to do specific jobs or advance in specific “institutional” posts. I have to fess up that I have not resolved in my own mind whether or not their (Clementson and the church) parting of the ways is a good or bad thing, but I disagree with saying her students now should not be considered to have had “class instruction” in the CS sense - this primary CS teaching. If she was ever “in favor” - and clearly was at one point, being a teacher of CS as well as a member of the church’s lectureship committee - a near sacerdotal role in the CS community - then I would suggest to the church that her teaching (and hence her students) shouldn’t be questioned unless it was discovered that she wasn’t teaching CS correctly. But that’s a whole 3rd discussion that nobody at the church has suggested, so we’ll assume that she was teaching “correct” CS; as such, her students should be able to retain their “having been taught” status even if she has departed the church organization. (This argument is akin to saying all of Pete Rose’s ball players weren’t real ball players because he had a gambling problem. It doesn’t wash.)
I don’t think cooties have so much to do with this argument. Neither does math and reading. We’re talkin’ totally different stuff here, more institution-of-religion stuff specific to the CS church than secular elementary school give-the-teacher-an-apple stuff.
by: squishy
What sort of student achievement are we discussing? If the teacher taught reading to grade school students, that’s one thing. If she was supposed to teach Mary Baker Eddy’s ideas to Sunday School students, that’s a different thing. In the Sunday School alternative, I can understand the “board of directors” apparent decision.
The board of directors considers her former students to have had NO primary instruction. Primary instruction in a scholastic sense normally means early reading, writing and arithmetic.
It seems like the students’ education would be tied to the validity of the credentials, not whether the teacher ‘returned’ them. Or their education might even be tied to common sense. (heaven forbid)
Of course they could always test the students and see how they are doing, but to undo several years of instruction over a personnel/social matter seems unwarranted.
I just spoke with the church. She was teaching the Christian Scientist scriptures themselves and not any portion of a traditional primary education.
I still think it’s foolish to consider the students uneducated. Her credentials were sufficient to teach and would have continued to be sufficient to keep her teaching job if she had done penance. Her students are now considered untaught because she’s moving to Massachusetts instead of dealing with the church.
Pretty interesting . Does that mean the students of every teacher who retired and returned their teaching certificates are also considered “uneducated”?
What is “penance” for a Christian Scientist? I think of it as what a priest tells me to do after he hears my confession — something like “three ‘Hail Marys’ and four ‘Our Fathers.’ (My sins were usually pretty minor — the technical term was ‘venial.’)
This is bizarre. Why wouldn’t lesbians be good teachers? The fact that we’re having this discussion is strange.
Editor’s note: Political spam in the previous message has been excised.
Then again, if you’re getting your education through “Christian Science,” there’s a point or two to be made about the quality of education you’re receiving no matter who is teaching it.
There’s a general lack of understanding here about the story, and while no expert, I am a Christian Scientist and maybe can correct a couple misconceptions (realizing I’m coming to the party a little late). The teaching or primary class instruction we’re talking about here is not traditional, but religious. Ms. Clementson was a teacher of Christian Science, not a secular school teacher. She taught adults Christian Science. The church’s decision to “fire” her is one issue many CS’ers are discussing; the decision to say her students are considered not to have had “class instruction” is a whole ‘nother topic. Class instruction in the (CS) sense is a key phrase that enables CS’ers to advance into various posts and more advanced types of instruction in the CS institution and may impact types of assignments in local branch churches. This isn’t anything radically different from other religions that require specific training in order to do specific jobs or advance in specific “institutional” posts. I have to fess up that I have not resolved in my own mind whether or not their (Clementson and the church) parting of the ways is a good or bad thing, but I disagree with saying her students now should not be considered to have had “class instruction” in the CS sense - this primary CS teaching. If she was ever “in favor” - and clearly was at one point, being a teacher of CS as well as a member of the church’s lectureship committee - a near sacerdotal role in the CS community - then I would suggest to the church that her teaching (and hence her students) shouldn’t be questioned unless it was discovered that she wasn’t teaching CS correctly. But that’s a whole 3rd discussion that nobody at the church has suggested, so we’ll assume that she was teaching “correct” CS; as such, her students should be able to retain their “having been taught” status even if she has departed the church organization. (This argument is akin to saying all of Pete Rose’s ball players weren’t real ball players because he had a gambling problem. It doesn’t wash.)
I don’t think cooties have so much to do with this argument. Neither does math and reading. We’re talkin’ totally different stuff here, more institution-of-religion stuff specific to the CS church than secular elementary school give-the-teacher-an-apple stuff.
I was a CS church member for over thirty years. My understanding is that throughout the history of the Church, whenever a Teacher is considered “disloyal” (for whatever reason, after teaching for however long) and the issue isn’t resolved to the Board’s satisfaction, then that Teacher’s students are considered to have never had “class” (as they call it), which is a two week course. BTW, most “loyal” Teachers are willing to offer the [re]training free of charge to students who find themselves in that situation. I would guess they would be encouraged to sever ties with the “disloyal” Teacher.
Another aspect of the whole primary “class” thing.. That two weeks is viewed in the context of an ongoing relationship involving annual association meetings and likely further spiritual mentorship on an individual level. It’s like a package deal. And so if a teacher becomes “disloyal” and is not considered worthy to fulfill the ongoing aspect of the deal, then it’s appropriate for the students to be able to initiate another deal by taking “class” from another teacher. Being considered as never having had “class” gives students that freedom. Normally, one isn’t allowed to take “class” but once in a lifetime. My intent here isn’t to address the legitimacy of the Board’s decision in this particular case, just to explain the premise as I recall from when I was in that church.
It is good to know that the C.S. Monitor and the Church have tried to cover up this story as much as possible.
A person who is a LESBIAN and has a LOVER and Marries the Lover, has been a LESBIAN and has had the Lover for some good time. Therefore, many in her Local Church and in the Chuch and even the very SPY CIRLCE and ORGANISATION of the church , Committee on Publication, should have KNOWN about this and ignored.
This alone is a Betrayal of Public TRUST. It is Betrayal and Deception in its fullest sense, as people CALL a HEALER for their HEALING Practice and part of that HEALING Practice is HONESTY and PURITY . PURITY abd Honesty is what our MR. PHIL DAVIS of BOSTON, head of Practitioner ’s office says Practitioner must have. The church has continued to BETRAY Public TRUST and rely on MONITOR and their members in CIA , FBI, MI5 and MI6 and in STATE DEP and Diplomatic Circle and in the PENTAGON and in the CNN ( ROGER ) and in NBC and other network to cover their DIRT and not let the PUBLIC KNOW what they really do.
The church is deceiving many already by allowing IRANIAN GODLESS MOSLEMS who are LESBIANS in FACT to have Class INSTRUCTION with such people and then go out there and STOP WOMEN having CHILDREN and MARRIAGE and a life with a man. WE SEE how Iranians are using the church and its members in US Government to change the Political MAP and already IRAQ is one of them .
There are many HEALERS like this person and why the Church is now a CULT and not a CHRISTIAN RELIGION and why they CANNOT HEAL anymore. Their PRACTITIONER like LYLE YOUNG in Boston, who is conveniently MADE a FIRST READER fall in the Category of TEACHERS who are there conveniently and by taking on Iranian Students and teaching some who WIN their WAY in WDC. LYLE YOUNG’s IMPURITY is like this LESBIAN TEACHER and why he is a FIRST READER. NICE cover up on behalf of the church.
No doubt this Comment will trigger much mental HARM as the CHurch MEMBERS are in the habit of , much MENTAL MAL PRACTICE as they do to those who bring their FILTH out. The church cannot go on pretending to BE PURE any more and many NEW TEACHERS are UNFIT , UNQUALIFIED spiriautally and are there for Political Reasons.
It was TIME for the filth in the church , both in BOSTON and other places to be FLUSHED OUT. This is just SCratch of SURFACE and MR.LYLE YOUNG is exactly or worse than this teacher in FLORIDA. HE may not BE GAY, but he does have other SEXUAL PERVERSIONS which is hidden and HE DOES HARM HIS PATIENTS to SILENCE THEM and why he is a FIRST READER for the CHURCH to Cover it all UP.
There are much more LESBIANS in the church than one imagines and their PERVERSION is poisonous everywhere and killing lives of many WOMEN . The worse thing anyone has done is to PUSH WOMEN into CELIBACY by such LESBIANS and then tell them they are not MEANT to be MARRIED. Our Lyle Young tells is HE IS NOT DESTINED to have a CHILD instead of telling us he is either INFERTILE or his WIFE is a LESBIAN.
If the Structure of the church is supposed to be LIFE, TRUTH, LOVE, we see DISHONESTY, DEATH and HATE spread by their MEMEBERS and IRANIANS they have conveniently brought into it. Where is TRUTH when such incidents are kept HIDDEN and brushed under the carpet by LESBIAN MONITOR CORRESPONDENTS. ????